In IVP’s Hyper-Growth Podcast series, IVP investors talk with CEOs from the fastest growing companies to understand the ins and outs of company building in the hyper-growth environment.
In our sixth episode, IVP investor Parsa Saljoughian speaks with Henrique Dubugras, Co-Founder and CEO of Brex, the smartest corporate card in the room. Today, Brex announced a $100 million investment round and now with $315 million in funding, Brex aims to rebuild B2B financial products, starting first with a corporate card for startups and now for e-commerce businesses. By building its products from scratch, Brex is reimagining traditional underwriting models and provides its corporate cards in a modern, data-driven, and consumer-friendly way.
Henrique summarizes what differentiates his company’s business from traditional credit card issuers. First, underwriting, which allows Brex to issue cards quickly to companies, with higher limits, and no personal guarantees. Second, Brex’s technology stack, which is built from the ground up and allows for a seamless and scalable product experience flexible to a company’s needs.
Henrique’s advice to entrepreneurs? Use your hard-earned advantages, be selective when hiring, and always play to the company’s collective strengths.
More on the lessons from Parsa and Henrique’s conversation below and in the full episode here.
EXPLOIT YOUR UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
“We had an unfair advantage in building Brex because we had built a payments company before.”
Henrique and his Co-Founder, Pedro Franceschi, met in Brazil in their mid-teens, then founded online payments company, Pagar.me. This was the beginning of a partnership between the two founders which helped them gain valuable founder- and domain-specific, fin-tech expertise. Ultimately they sold Pagar.me to Stone, a Brazilian payments processor, but not after growing the business to over 100 employees and $1 billion in transaction volume.
Both Henrique and Pedro moved to the US to enroll at Stanford but dropped out during their freshman year to join Y-Combinator. Their startup idea? A VR-business… They wanted to do something at the “bleeding edge of technology” but quickly realized that they had little to no expertise in hardware or VR. Realizing during their YC experience that none of their peers could get a corporate card, they pivoted back to fin-tech to start Brex. Payments and financial services is a passion and their experience from Pagar.me served them well in getting this business off the ground and navigating the complex environment.
KEEP THE BAR HIGH ON RECRUITING
“[Do not] let the urgency of the hire reduce the quality of people.”
The company started with two strategic, yet uncommon hires: a CFO and General Counsel. This was important to help Brex deal with banks and navigate the complex regulatory nature of the industry. These hires came from SoFi and Stripe, respectively, and helped Brex work in an accelerated velocity from day one.
The first ten hires set the tone for a company’s culture. For Brex, these hires were a hustle, but under no circumstances would Henrique and Pedro let themselves lower their bar. As the company has scaled, especially post-launch, Brex has benefitted from referrals which have helped make recruiting easier. In just the last year, Brex has hired over 100 people, quadrupling year-over-year. Even with this pace, Henrique has instilled in the culture a high bar on hiring, not letting the urgency of any hires reduce the quality of people. He goes as far as to say that he would rather have fewer high performers that they pay well than more employees who don’t meet their performance thresholds.
CHOOSE YOUR BATTLES
“The toughest thing at our speed of growth is just choosing what fires you are going to let burn.”
When asked about his biggest challenge during this hyper-growth phase, Henrique noted that it’s about choosing which fires to let burn. When you have a fast-scaling company, there will be many fires. Some will flare up and demand your attention, others build in the background, threatening to spread if they aren’t extinguished. But as a founder, if you spend a lot of your time fighting these fires, you might miss opportunities to build your business and become reactive vs proactive. At the same time, if you let fires go on too long, this could be problematic. It becomes important to decide which fires you let burn, and how long you let them burn for. This concept has been discussed in Reid Hoffman’s Masters of Scale.
FOCUS ON YOUR STRENGTHS; HIRE FOR YOUR WEAKNESSES
“As a CEO you should do what you’re really great at and hire for everything else.”
In high-growth companies, given the pace of progress, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for a CEO to master everything. Henrique suggests that founders focus on what they are best at while building an amazing team around them to master the rest. For Henrique, this means focusing on recruiting, something he considers one of his top skills.
Book Recommendation: In the episode, Henrique refers to 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy by Hamilton Helmer. This book lays out a clear and insightful framework for thinking about competitive advantages. The 7 Powers include: 1) Scale Economies, 2) Network Economies, 3) Counter-Positioning, 4) Switching Costs, 5) Branding, 6) Cornered Resource, and 7) Process Power.
More from the full conversation in the transcript is below.
Narrator: Welcome to IVP’s Hyper-Growth Podcast. In this series, we talk with CEOs of the fastest-growing companies and discuss the ins-and-outs of company building in the hyper-growth environment. If you like what you hear, consider following us on SoundCloud or subscribing to our podcast on iTunes. Thanks, and enjoy the show.
Parsa: Hi everyone, I’m Parsa Saljoughian, an investor at IVP, back with another episode of the IVP Hyper-Growth Podcast and I’m excited to have with us today Henrique Dubugras, founder and CEO of Brex, The Smartest Corporate Card in the Room. Brex is rebuilding B2B financial products starting first with a corporate card for technology companies and now for e-commerce businesses. By building its products from scratch, Brex has reimagined traditional underwriting models, offering its cards with no personal guarantees, instant approvals, and modern payment terms. The company has raised over $200 million since founding and is valued at over $1 billion today. IVP was fortunate to invest in the company’s Series C round last October and we’ve been impressed by Brex’s continued progress and pace of innovation. Henrique met his co-founder Pedro seven years ago in Brazil after a friendly argument online. At the age of 16, they decided to start Pagar.me which quickly became known as the “Stripe of Brazil.” They sold the business in 2016, after growing it to $1.5 billion in transaction volume. And then the both of them moved to Palo Alto to enroll at Stanford, but after eight months, they dropped out to co-found Brex, which was born out of frustration when their company had cash in the bank from investors, but they could not open up a credit card account. In today’s episode, I’ll get Henrique’s thoughts on recruiting and compensation, navigating competition from incumbents, his product development philosophy, and other general learnings as he’s navigated the company through this hyper-growth phase. So, with that, let’s welcome our guest. Thanks for joining us today Henrique.
Henrique: Hi Parsa. Thank you for having me. It’s great to be here.
Parsa: So I gave a quick overview of Brex but I’ll turn it over to you. In your own words help explain what Brex is and what pain point you’re solving.
Henrique: Yes, I think you know I would say Brex solves two main pain points. The first one around underwriting. We give companies higher limits with no personal guarantee very fast. Instead of traditional, you would have lower limits, you have to personally guarantee your card, and it would take several weeks to get a card right? We did that for startups first and now we just launched e-commerce. Where for e-commerce actually you have a lot better payment terms. You get 60-day free, interest-free line of credit for basically two months. Whatever you spend today you pay 60 days from now, whatever you spend tomorrow you pay 61 days from now like a true 60-day line of credit. That’s on the underwriting side. On the technology side, what we did was that we rebuilt the entire technology stock from scratch and that allows us to build a lot of stuff that no one else has built before, like a much easier way to capture receipts, add users, remove users, set limits for cards, better statements, better products. I think you have to use it to get it, but there’s a lot better technology there.
Parsa: I’m excited to unpack all of that in today’s episode. Maybe going back to the beginning, you applied to YC with the VR startup and then you came out with Brex. So what happened there and what was the motivation for you and Pedro to get back into fintech?
Henrique: When we sold our last company in payments we were like, “Oh my God I’m done with payments, like dealing with banks and regulation this seems so hard. So, we want to do something different.” And then we went to school and then a little bit and school we’re like OK we want to do something different. VR seems like the bleeding edge of technology, let’s do a VR startup. So, we did that and got into YC with that idea, but soon we realized we had no clue what we were doing. We knew a lot about payments, but we had no clue how to do VR. And that’s kind of how we decided to do something else and then we start looking for other ideas and we ended up realizing that payments is actually what we love and financial services actually what we love and is what we are as founders are mostly prepared to do, right? We had an unfair advantage in building Brex because we had built a payments company before and we had an unfair disadvantage building VR because we know nothing about hardware companies or VR per se.
Parsa: It’s well known that the first ten employees really set the foundation for a company. What I think is interesting is that when you started Brex, your first two hires were very nontraditional, so you hired a CFO and a general counsel. Maybe talk about why you hired those two roles and what it was that got you to convince these two individuals to join your company which at the time was pretty nascent?
Henrique: What we soon realize is that owning the stack was the most important thing we had to do, so owning all the technology, having a really good bank relationship, having good support from the networks. Being able to control 100 percent of our destiny was what would enable us to create a great product. We didn’t see regulation as a blocker, we saw regulation as actually an enabler. But we didn’t know a lot about it here in the U.S. and we hired a CFO and a General Counsel that experience dealing with banks and getting partnerships with banks and also U.S. regulation, and the four of us came together with ‘how do we deliver the experience that we want?’ And as you said it was tough because both were pretty senior. Michael, our CFO, he was Chief Revenue Officer at SoFi before. So that was a pretty big role. And this was before SoFi got in the press a lot. And then, Vince recently came out of Stripe already had a great experience there and they both got impressed about the vision that we had and like what we wanted to build and also the opportunity to use what they learned through their prior years to do it right for the first time. Not have to fix it later, but do it correctly from the beginning. And I think because of that, we were able to work on Brex in an accelerated velocity that allowed us to grow really, really quickly.
Parsa: You mentioned it was important to own the tech stack and we’re going to dig into that a little bit, but it sounds like this is very fintech specific so to the fintech founders who are listening to this podcast, would you recommend that they should hire a CFO and a General Counsel as their first two hires to sort of navigate the world the same way that you did?
Henrique: I think it depends on your idea and the way you want to do it. If you know whatever you’re doing, I wouldn’t do a bad banking partnership or something like that, I would own the stack. So, in order, if you need that, if you need a banking partnership or you need to get licensing or any kind of regulatory stuff in order to begin, yes, I would hire them otherwise, no.
Parsa: In talking about this topic of recruiting, you discuss publicly about the fact that the current startup compensation model is broken and I’m curious from your perspective, what is it that’s broken? What’s your compensation philosophy and how do you ultimately get people to join your company?
Henrique: I think there are a few things. The first one is this underlying assumption that by giving a lot of equity to people they necessarily feel more or less ownership. I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I think people who want equity and then you give them equity they definitely feel more ownership. But I think there are so many failed startups in the Bay Area, that a lot of people don’t care too much about it and they’re like, “hey I want the impact that I get to do in a startup in a small organization and doing things with a much larger impact but honestly like I don’t want to take the risk of the equity because it doesn’t make sense for me right now”. Or the other way around right where someone actually made some money before or has a really low cost of living and like, “hey I don’t care about making tons of cash and therefore I want a big equity package,” right? So, I think that both those people can feel a great sense of ownership for the company. It doesn’t have to do necessarily with the amount of equity that they have. They can choose how much they want in cash, how much they want in stock, some people we give them a total compensation offer, some people take 90 percent cash, 10 percent stock, somebody will take you to know 30 percent cash, 70 percent stock. There is this assumption and this kind of like thing in Silicon Valley, which I think it was true in the past, I’m not sure if it’s true now that necessarily by giving everyone a lot of equity, they’re going to be more aligned and feel more ownership. I think that may be true in other cities or any other parts of the world. I think it’s less and less true each day here in the U.S.
Parsa: I think you’re in an interesting position where you have a lot of capital, but maybe in the Pagar.me days or to other founders that haven’t raised as much capital. Do you think this is something that can work for them as well?
Henrique: We always had similar philosophy since we had raised our Series A. So my advice on that is hire less people, but get the best people that you can and pay them well. You’re going to increase your burn anyway, I rather increase it with fewer people that are really good than more people that are either underpaid or not as great.
Parsa: Hiring is obviously something that’s been important to you over the course of the last two years and even when you started your first company but you’re now in this incredibly, incredibly rapid growth phase and you’ve hired over 100 people in the last two years and quadrupled over the last year. Help us understand a little bit about the differences or the similarities to hiring in the early days versus hiring today when you’re in this crazy growth phase from your perspective and from a company philosophy standpoint.
Henrique: Honestly, for us, it seemed like it changed much, but it didn’t change too much. I think when we got here a lot of people told us, “Hey you are the first ten hires and we struggled to do the first ten hires you to know we did a CFO and General Counsel but like the first engineers and stuff like that it was really tough. We just didn’t know anyone in Silicon Valley right?” I didn’t hire Stanford friends, well my Stanford friends were all freshmen. So, it wasn’t a very good pool. It was really struggling. And we did a lot of counterintuitive things in the beginning that people tell you not to do, so we paid tons of recruiting fees. If we found these recruiters that they’re not on retainer, they’re just on commission, if you hire someone, you pay them. We have five of them working for us. If we found someone that we like, we paid them, but we kept the bar very, very, very high. I think that’s something we had from the beginning is like, the first ten people are going to set the culture and set the tone like we’re going to keep that bar high. And I think as the company grows we build out a recruiting team, we have a lot more referrals. I think the thing that gets easier is that you have a lot more people, and then those people refer more people. So it becomes easier, and honestly, the other thing that we had is like we took a long time to launch publicly. We started the company March 17, we only launched June 18. So before then, people wouldn’t like to respond to our reachouts and Linkedin because no one knew Brex, it was a coming soon thing. I think we were even in a better position than most startups, we were second-time founders, we had like famous VCs backing us and we went through YC. In general, the first ten people are just a hustle but even though it’s a hustle, you can’t lower your bar. As the company grows, the challenges are similar in the sense that now every team is starving and you’re telling every manager that they have to build a team so people let the urgency of the hire reduce the quality of people and that’s something that Pedro and I were all the time pushing against it. Let’s not let the urgency of the hire reduce the quality of the people and repeat that over and over.
Parsa: There are some really interesting points thereof hiring quickly but keeping the bar high there is a tension there but I think it’s really important to make sure you don’t lower that quality bar. Staying on this topic of hyper-growth, you’ve grown to over a 100 people, now you’re shipping products super quickly you’re moving at the speed of lightning. Hiring is one part of your job but maybe help us understand what’s been the hardest thing of managing Brex through this phase of crazy, lightning-fast growth.
Henrique: Honestly like that the toughest thing in our speed of growth is just choosing what fires you are going to let burn. You can’t want everything to be perfect, you need to let some stuff be bad, and choosing what are those things is not always obvious because every stakeholder that works in that thing is gonna be very upset if you choose their thing. So, what are the things that we’re willing to not be great in the beginning in order to move fast? I think that’s like one of the most challenging things.
Parsa: How you manage some of these challenges in going through hyper-growth, there are a lot of other founders that have gone through the scaling phase as well whether it’s fintech or not. You’ve got a board of directors that you trust, you have other investors you’ve met, you probably have mentors. So how do you think about who to go to when you have questions about what you need to do organizationally to manage some of these challenges?
Henrique: I think a lot of times I meet people, I ask them what they think they’re really good at. I ask in a nice way: “hey you have such a fascinating story, you seem to be good at so many things like but if you had to choose one thing that you say, wow this like I’m probably better than most people what would you say?” And then they usually respond and that helps to say, “hey who’s good at what?” Sometimes I go to a person that I think knows the most about this specific subject. Sometimes I go to people who went through – I know went through similar situations and sometimes I just go to people I trust the most. Right?
Parsa: Is there anybody who you look to as a mentor or another founder or a company that you look at and say, wow they did this really well?
Henrique: Yeah, I did know one company they say oh everything about this company is great right. There are different companies inside and outside of tech. Like outside of tech for example where we really like the founders of 3G Capital. They’re like good mentors to us and were early investors at Brex. And we really like the philosophy that they had around growing people from the inside, hiring and promoting young people, compensating people well, etc. We don’t agree or not that we don’t agree, we don’t think that some of their things are applicable to us. For example, the whole cost-cutting culture, it’s not the business that we’re in. So, you can’t copy everything from one company, you need to see which each of them are the best at.
Parsa: It’s about taking the best pieces of every company and hopefully bringing it back to Brex. You talked about building the technology infrastructure from scratch, which is a big investment even before you launched. Maybe help our audience understand a little bit about why it’s so important to do that and what benefits there are in the short term but also the long term of building a product and building the infrastructure yourself.
Henrique: The main benefits are around just control. So, the problem with, in my opinion, a lot of fintech today is they can build a nice little app or API or the skin on top of existing financial infrastructure. But in the end, you’re going to be halted by the financial infrastructure. So, like it’s like that those financial apps where they have a beautiful UI but then it takes three days to get approved. If you own your own technology and your own destiny you can do things like we do and have instant approval and improve that over time and not have to convince someone else that that is what you do and for that you need to really understand like the creation of B2B financial products or any financial products in our opinion is the integration of technology, finance, and regulation. You need to integrate those three things to actually do stuff.
Parsa: Maybe sometimes it doesn’t make sense to partner. How do you think about when you build, when you partner with others and ultimately do you want to own everything yourself? Or does it make sense sometimes to actually partner with somebody who might have a specialization that’s as valuable and probably not someone you want to bring in house?
Henrique: I don’t think there’s a generic answer to that. Each company needs to have its own strategy. My guideline would we do whatever you need to do but don’t compromise on your core products. If that makes sense. So I’ll give an example like for us, our core products are credit cards, but we do have, for example, a travel partner that you can use points to redeem travel. It doesn’t make sense for us to rebuild an entire travel portal, because it’s not cored to our business. What’s core to our business is building credit cards, right?
Parsa: And so one of the differentiating factors, as we talked about, is building your technology from scratch and I think that’s one thing that was different from some of the incumbents. But really just pushing on that, you’ve got a product that’s disrupting multi-billion dollar companies, AMEX, Chase, and others on the credit card side but they also have a lot of capital, a lot of resources. I think their commercial division is multiple billions in revenue 20 to 30 percent profit margins. So they technically have the resources to try to build a technology solution that can emulate what you’re building at Brex and so maybe help us understand a little bit about what it is that you’re really doing this differentiated and why a company like that can’t put the resources together to be a competitor.
Henrique: I think that it goes to a little bit of the DNA of a company, so resources… there are only so many things you can put money in and see whatever goes out. I think if you’re competing like a company like Facebook and Amazon and Microsoft, they’re actually really good at engineering and they can actually do a lot of stuff and if they try to compete with it’s kind of a problem. And some companies win and some companies lose. But with banks, there’s this technological DNA that’s really, really hard to compare to any technology company. They are just financial companies and brand companies. The big banks they can’t attract the talented engineers, and even if they wanted to change their core systems, there’s so much stuff going on. The migration process is so arduous. I think for those who read 7 Powers, there’s one called counter positioning, and I think this applies to this which is it makes sense for AMEX or other banks to not change their core systems. And let us eat some market share of people that care about that because it’s too costly for them and it’s too risky for them, and their regulators will want to be happy about that. So that’s one thing. The things that we can do differently are the technological features that I told like we can do different underwriting model in which we can look at this real-time underwriting model where we can look at cash balances and sales arms and other things in order to decide how much to give the limit and re-underwrite a customer every day. We can create instant onboarding in which you can sign up and instantly get a virtual card and all that KYC, AML, and regulate the regulatory checkups can be done real time on the back end. We can make it super easy for you to read your statements, things like that.
Parsa: That was a big part of what got us excited. And I think you mentioned one thing there, that your ability to hire really, really incredible talent compared to these banks which just aren’t gonna be able to attract the same talent as you have allowed you to not only build this infrastructure but ship products incredibly quickly and I think one thing we look for and our diligence was we understood was the product velocity and so you launched the original corporate card for startups. You recently launched in the e-commerce, you have this robust rewards program, and there’s a lot on the horizon but maybe help us understand a little bit about your product development philosophy and how do you decide which products you want to build because you want to move quickly, but at the same time you want to remain focused.
Henrique: Our philosophy on this is like we want to build products that we can be the best at. If we’re just going to build something that someone else built we’d rather integrate with them. An example of that is around expenses, right. We had multiple discussions over time like: “Are we going to go and build something like Expensify or Concur or are we going to partner with them?” And we ended up deciding to partner with them because there’s so much there that we would just repeat the process. So how can we deliver the best experience for the customer by integrating really well with those guys? And at the same time doing only the parts that we’re uniquely positioned to do because we’re the credit card. We just want to do what only we can do.
Parsa: And you mentioned that you have a lot of discussions internally on the product. A big part of the firm’s culture is decision making. I’m sure in the early days it was you and Pedro and the different product hires you brought in making decisions. But how do you know, given your moving so quickly, you have a lot of different VP level hires and a lot of different people on the product side, decide and make decisions on what actually to move forward with?
Henrique: I think on the general pipeline, we take a lot of input, but it’s still our decision in the end. But on the specifics and the specific implementation of the products and the day today, it’s pretty like we’re building out a product team that’s is pretty solid.
Parsa: The final topic here and this is around you as a CEO and some of your learnings. As you look back on your time at Brex the last two years and your experience at Pagar.me with Pedro, what’s one lesson you’ve learned the hard way that you think a founder listening to this podcast would really appreciate?
Henrique: The lesson I learned the hard way is that sometimes you read about the best CEOs and you read about the stories about how Elon Musk, there was this guy that wasn’t doing his job super well and taking a month to do something and then Elon Musk just spent the whole night, redid everything in like one night and was done with that, just to show everybody. And I was like fuck if that’s what needs to be a great CEO, I’m really not that. When you’re looking at a lot of CEOs, you keep comparing yourself and it’s just really hard to know the real story and it’s also really hard to know what you’re supposed to do. The reality is that in my opinion, being a CEO is that you should do what you’re really great at. And you should hire for everything else. That’s your only job. You need to be good at the things that you’re good at and bring an amazing team around you to do everything you’re not the best at. Because at high-growth companies they grow so quickly that I don’t think CEOs have time to learn how to do everything. So it’s really struggling for a CEO to think like, “Hey I’m underperforming because there’s this thing I’m supposed to be good at and I’m not.” Like the thing, you’re supposed to be good at is like a few things you already are and you get better them and then hiring for the rest.
Parsa: I think it’s important to bring in people that complement your skill set and just on that point in terms of your own personal development what’s one area that you think you personally can develop the most?
Henrique: There’s are a few things I’m really good at and I want to spend more time developing them so I think recruiting is like one of my top skills. I think we did a really good job putting a good team together. But as the company grew I felt a little bit that I was losing the hustle because, “hey the company is doing super well, a billion dollar valuation blah blah blah all that, and you kind of like losing the hustle.” I’m trying to get back in like, “Hey this is like day one right?” There’s someone that’s great, we need to go all in after them and like not that let them escape and get them at all cost. So I think like you know being even better at recruiting is something I’m personally trying to get better at and also being more deliberate about culture and communication. I think I’m not a really good writer, I’m a pretty verbal person. As the company grows to transform the culture from a verbal culture to a like a written culture, is something I have a lot on my mind and I’m trying to get better at it.
Parsa: And one thing we can agree that you’ve been really good at is the fundraising process. What is it that you look for in an investor. And what advice do you have to those listening about the fundraising process. Any lessons that you either learned the hard way or you’ve mastered that would be valuable to know?
Henrique: Honestly, like fundraising has come quite naturally to us and my lesson is to build relationships with the people before asking for money. At the end of the day, what I don’t like doing is like never talking to a single investor and then for two weeks you go out, pitch everybody, and then go back, raise money and go back to work. I think that choosing your lifetime partners that are going to give you capital and support and advice for a long period of time is something that you should do more deliberately and think and get to know them better over time. Whenever that VC that you like wants to take a coffee meeting just take the meeting, proactively reach out and ask them for help to see who helps you even before they invest. And build these relationships over time. I think that’s the biggest thing that we did. For example, with you guys I knew Somesh for a few months already before we did the round then I already liked him for a while.
Parsa: Now given the status of the company are getting pinged every day by a bunch of different people. How do you make sure it’s just not overwhelming because you still need to run the business, you still need to make product decisions, you need to spend time recruiting and make that a real focus. So how do you make sure it doesn’t get too out of whack in terms of your time?
Henrique: References are always useful. It’s rare that I take a meeting that someone coldly reached out. One of my founder friends or one of my investors refers someone that “hey this is a great person”, I make it a priority to spend the time.
Parsa: We always found the warm intros are the easiest way for us to get in front of other founders. The final question I have is a fun one. Everybody’s seen the billboards in San Francisco, New York and wherever else you have them, but who came up with that idea and have you actually found them to be effective?
Henrique: Yeah. So it was extremely effective. I talked about this publicly already, but it was the best thing we did. I think the level of awareness that Brex has compared to how much time we launched, remember is like nine months ago, is very big. I think the billboards did a lot of work for that. So initially, we did it for mostly for recruiting purposes we’re like, “hey if people can know who we are, it’s going to help us recruit.” Also because we were launching and we thought it might be fun to like supplement the press of some billboards. After a while, we figured out that it’s actually responsible for delivering our brand message and awareness and that helps in all the other aspects of the company. So, it’s not as expensive as everybody thinks and is actually really effective. So I really recommend it.
Parsa: Awesome. Well, Henrique thanks so much for joining us on the show. It was a pleasure to have you and we’re excited to see what’s next for you and Brex.
Henrique: Awesome, thanks Parsa. Thank you for having me. It was great.
Narrator: Thank you for listening to IVP’s Hyper-Growth Podcast. You can learn more about us on IVP.com or join the conversation on Twitter by tweeting @IVP.